Have your Auto Bail Out and EAT IT TOO!

Just to be clear if I ramble. No bail out and take the greeny money too. The cost of your company failing is bankruptcy. Go into chapter 11, change the UAW deals($73 per hr. really), change the contracts with the dealer, close some dealers and fire the management. If you have to guarantee a loan and the warranties once they do, fine. If you can do that without the chapter 11, that is not fair and a bad president, fine. Many have made points including Romney: Let Detroit go bankrupt his NYT op-ed and Ace of Spades with:

"Detroit has not been able to make decent entry level cars for a long, long time. Two generations of Americans have learned to avoid low-cost American cars at all costs. They're simply crappy cars -- to offset the big additional labor costs, they have to go with the cheapest possible parts. They can compete in quality or they can compete on costs, but not both. (I think they actually half-compete on both, resulting in cars that are still a thousand or $1500 more than Japanese cars of that class, but still a lot less car for the money.)"

What you can't do? Force them to switch from gas hogs that no one wants to green weeny-mobiles that no one wants. Congress can keep their own crap together. They Can Not run an auto company. Fuel efficient cars are great, and they are trying. A massive refit to meet the Green left's ideas about fictional global warming crisis means that we will own the mess that will be the auto industry.
Mass money to refit to make cars no one may want. If it fails it will be on us, I mean Congress. Then what? Kick out all foreign cars? Raise tariffs? Who the hell knows. Do Not Bail Them OUT! Clear?

Hopefully you know all that. The insanity is wanting two bail outs and not accepting one. Parts Of D.C. have been screaming that they must bail out the auto industry. I am try not to use "the Left". The industry will fail we will use 3 million jobs, use your own inflated numbers, and you won't be able to get your car fixed. You can get it fixed the warranty might be sketchy. It would be cheaper to have a non dealer fix it for the car companies or the new USA Car Company.

If it is so vital just free up the green grant money. For some reason they can't do it. Are they trying to protect future money they know the big 3 will need? Do they know that if they can not get money now they can not get it latter? Will it be to late when Obama takes office if they give up on the second bail out now. Why? Can the car companies not fail of is it the unions?

If the big three have to be saved why not free up the green money now?

Gay Protester and Free Speech as Fascism

In my haste to find blogs that make sense I made a little boo boo.

America Blog I am not sure what I missed the first time. On the other hand Bookworm Room
I have a growing appreciation for. There is piece on the consecutive movement (that wasn't all that GOPish) that i actual agreed with most of.

On the first hand Gingrich, gays and fascists? ?
The neanderthal comments I ignore. If they make a good point fine, we all want to act like children on occasion. More often it is a real "tell", add your own childish comment.

That aside:

"Well, Newt now thinks gays are fascists - he used the word - because they are publicly holding rallies to oppose the passage of Prop 8 in California. You'll recall that Prop 8 was the proposition that the Mormons and the religious right used to overturn a civil rights decision of the California Supreme Court, ripping the right of marriage away from gay couples."

Well he used the word for a reason. The part you don't mention here or any where. Newt did.

'"Discussing actions by individual protesters of Proposition 8, Newt Gingrich stated: "I think there is a gay and secular fascism in this country that wants to impose its will on the rest of us, is prepared to use violence, to use harassment. I think it is prepared to use the government if it can get control of it. I think that it is a very dangerous threat to anybody who believes in traditional religion."'

I not fond of wars of definition. Unforgivable we let to many of them go unfought.

From:Merriam-Webster online

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
1:often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti)that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

Do not give me any crap about Obama being called a socialist. By the book he was not. He didn't advocate a socialist government. Fine. He did have socialistic ideas and they should of said that or better yet called him a collectivist.

Did the gay activist get a theater owner and supporter of prop8 fired? Did they threaten to boycott a business for the same? What about the churches? Vandalism? Crazies running through a church service in Michigan? How many reports of bad behaviour, harassment and out right crimes have there been?

If you use your free speech to muzzle that of others that is fascist. If you use boycotts and harassment ? What are you protesting? This will have to work though the courts now. They seem to be protesting the free speech of others they don't agree with.

"You're apparently not a fascist if you use the frenzied anger of the majority to get the government to take away the judicially-recognized civil rights of a discriminated-against minority"

Let me see?. Law A is pass by the people of state C. Some out of control ignoramus of a mayor running an off the deep end city blatantly and actively brakes law A. Luckily he has support and it is only a civil violation. Darn. So it goes before the state C supreme court. They find it unconstitutional in the state C. Fine. So the people go back and change their constitution in that state. That is where we are. So next step in the process we all live with. Back to the court. If law A violates the constitution of the state C then it is over turned. If not it is the law of land C. Then it is repeated at the federal level if the Supreme Court of the US takes the case. The only other option is to have another vote and repeal law A. So again what are you protesting?

I did want to get into this, here we go. As far as i can tell they are bent because the same label is not applied to them. They have exactly the same right under civil unions. Do you want to compare that to whites only lunch counter,water fountains, restrooms, and the like or having your vote really suppressed or having to sit in a certain spot or oh that's right being lynched for some perceived slight against a white person. Really how many people to you want to piss of over a label. And might I add the final decision on the matter has not even worked its way through the system.

My thought has been for some time that civil unions are a huge victory. Take it and run. If you yourself and the gay community call it marriage for 10-15 years everyone else will see it that way. take your win and live your lives for a while. You have the property rights, visitation rights, rights to raise your child if your partner dies and all the rights that were a problem. Take your victory. Must you have everything now. Let the rest of the people catch up.

I have no idea what the hell is with Mormon, died and Jews a the end. It sound like it has nothing to do with bigotry but I don't know the story and don't want to. As a matter of fact I don't want to know any of it. This is one case where i would accept ignorance is bliss.

Q.H. - Iranian Weapons Myth? What?

From: The Iranian Weapons Myth
There is a current( a meme) that the amount of weapons and the reasons for the weapons that have used to kill US troops from Iran is wrong. and i catch a tone of Bush is a lair whaa. (I feel i read to much on the right but the liberal stuff makes my wittle heed hurt) The little mentioned incidents of cross border fire early on would have been enough years ago to start a war. Second any country that can't keep its nice new weapons under its control and then they are used to kill our troop needs to at least be told to get their crap together. I don't care if it is one or a thousand deaths. Frankly if it got to a thousand air strikes, at least, would be in order.

On yglesias @ thinkprogress
By the way any one that can't find a more descriptive way of describing a actions as something other than warmongering needs to look at their objectivity. Oh wait unless that group is calling for war and can't wait to kill and "drink the blood of the defeated enemy" just to fuel the next war.
Unless they are talking about the Bush gang and blood is oil and you are insane. Use the term for those who really deserve it. How about we go back to the hawk and dove terms and stop demonizing people. Does the "warmonger" really want some sort of unrestrained war?

Hold your Fire and Teach

The trend to "hold your fire" on the incoming administration is starting to scare me. Fox reports some of the odd thing that are going on, but seems to lack the curiosity to ask questions. Obama sending emissaries to listen to the summit on the world economy? They say it is just to listen, but is it? What if that is not what is happening? How will what we know of him effect the out come? In general how bad can it get? There are some thing that need to be asked. Every one says Obama is a blank slate so shouldn't we be questioning even more.

From: Bookworm Room-That’s the problem with post-election punditry

(continued from a comment on another post)"That’s exactly right. I have inchoate fears right now, based on almost two years of watching Obama at work, and being quite worried about him, his agenda, his cohorts and his followers. But until something happens, that’s all those fears will be: inchoate.

Right now, I’m doing something I haven’t done too much in the last few years: I’m hunkering down in the real world, and trying to get a little emotional distance from the intellectual excitement of politics. "

Obama has done nothing yet. We are all tiered. Fine. However Obama, the people he is looking to put into the new administration and the leader in congress do have ideas and a philosophy. There is a danger in this. The Obama Administration and his acolytes are going to his the ground running with a mass of willing (some apparently ignorant of much) followers that will hear nothing else.

From Bookworm Room comments: Charles Martel

"What bothers me the most is the uncomprehending stares I get when I remind people that nothing is free, that A leads to B leads to C leads to D — that there really IS a slippery slope, and they just elected a guy super-equipped with rope cutters, hob-nailed boots for stomping knuckles and extra-viscuous oil for accelerating the slide."

There is a fundamental lack of curiosity, basic knowledge of history, opposing philosophies and logic and the ability to accept new ideas (even if just to take a good look and reject them latter).

This should be a time to teach. Start from scratch with your arguments. Spoon feed little bite size ideas. They will have to be small, but that is how things are built. Take advantage of the down time to restart the American curiosity. Teach that has been lost, the skills to think again for one's self. Do not lay the whole argument out. Just strengthen the knowledge and skills of the people, put the pieces on the table and let them put them together.

Those on the right have to stop reading the end of the book to the general public. Those that understand already know the end and those who don't find the end impossible at the very least. Stop preaching to the choir and start teaching the skill to join the choir if they want.

There is a Problem. The Fairness Doctrine is Not the Answer.

There is very much a problem in the media. The left leaning types demonize business, race bait and paint every thing with a big government solution. The right leaning types commonly drop little facts, constantly fall back on religion and the constitution with little explanation (even if they are right) and write off groups like the humanists and segment of the culture they can't seem to understand.

The solution is not the Fairness Doctrine. You need many more fair journalists. And more entertaining commentators that are willing to be fun and inquisitive. I have mentioned Dave Glover in this area before and he is a good example, although he has gone more to the entertainment side of late.

From: Broadcast Blackout of Left’s 'Fairness' Doctrine Push

New York Senator Charles Schumer: "The very same people who don’t want the Fairness Doctrine want the FCC to limit pornography on the air," Schumer told the Fox News Channel. "You can’t say, ‘government hands off in one area’ to a commercial enterprise, but you’re allowed to intervene in another. That’s not consistent."

Talk radio and porn are the same thing to the government? The whole thing is insane. I am not diving to far into this, because well it is insane. There is a good chance it will happen like the rest of the insanity. Others have gotten in to it.

The Fairness Doctrine: What You May Not Know

"If you are unfamiliar with The Fairness Doctrine...and perhaps "fairness" sounds like a good thing, here is an example of what such a doctrine, more commonly known today as a "censorship doctrine," would require: if Rush Limbaugh has a 3 hour daily program, that station must allow a 3 hour daily program with an opposing viewpoint - think the failed Air America, Al Franken, Randi Rhodes. If sponsors do not want to advertise on an unpopular show, because no one listens, then what? I don't think we know."

And there are links to the left. And look like they are going to paint the right as the problem.

Podesta's Media Matters Paves the Way For Fairness Doctrine

They are starting early and going hard at the right. Is this the Obama Nuclear Option? Time will tell.

Bonuses Out of Bail Out Money? How Bad Is It?

Why are we painting whole companies with the same brush? I am just as mad as the next if the top people in a company that asked for bail out money get huge bonuses. Mr. Cafferty was the end of my rope with this. He isn't the only one doing this. He is a good example.


(I can never get video from CNN to work. I would if I could.)

We a need to take a breath and think two steps down the road. You have to ask two questions when looking at the bonus amounts. Who is getting the bonus? The head people? That is wrong. What about the people in middle management? What about those executing the trades?
From WSJ on cutting Wall Street bonuses:

"Still, even if banks wanted to, they would be hard-pressed to eliminate bonuses and survive. Bonuses aren’t really “bonuses” in the “something extra than what is due” meaning of the term. It is actual compensation. People who work on Wall Street wait all year to get the bulk of their annual pay. Sure, they get a base salary, but it is standardized, relatively small and not reflective of individual performance. And, as firms conserve cash, a larger part of bonuses come in the form of stock, which the markets are hammering."

The more outrages part of this whole bail out versus bonuses, some companies Did Not want the money and are being forcing to any way.

'“They’ve been calling us; they want us to participate. They’ve been asking banks to participate,” said Dan Rollins, president of Houston-based Prosperity Bank.'

They are however still under the same rules. The public just lumped them in with the rest. We should be out there cheering those who didn't need the money because they where smart and amazingly didn't want the money they where forced to take.

Not all business is bad. Think. stop painting them all with the same brush. Focus you anger on those who dissever it. The CEO types in this case. Just don't forget about Congress and the rest of the bureaucracy.

Will Obama Use His Nuclear Option

Obama will govern from the center because he is a centrist at heart? He doesn't want congress stealing his thunder and forcing their agenda? The country is really in the middle and I should follow the will of the people? He just wants to win in 2012?

I don't think he can fight his ideology. Marxist? Ultra left? Whatever you want to call it.

The nuclear option. Turn into the left full speed. Day one repeal every executive order he wants and ram every piece of legislation he wants through congress. Take all the air out of the political discourse. The groups on the left will give him all the room he needs. The right's heads will spin so fast they won't know were to begin. They will grab on to the economic portion and only scream briefly about the rest. The main stream will spend so much time just trying to explain it all the general public will have little idea what is going on. "Obama said their will be change"

How? Hide most of it behind the economic crisis. Give a speech with lots soaring vague rhetoric. "We have to save the economy." Obama will easily tie card check and heath care to the economy. He might even make an argument for the Fairness Doctrine buy linking all the talk, or misinformation as it will inevitable be called, to uncertainty in the economy. Of course that has to be controlled as well if we want to "SAVE The Economy."

The evidence, nothing direct. Democratic members of Congress are positively giddy. They keep making endless comment that are at best a serious distortion of the American system and at worst a veiled prelude to a communist take over. I think it is on the best end, but the path is open to the worst.

Obama has been quiet. He has been sending people to meetings of all kinds. Are they just listening, giving their views to these people and groups, or just flat out subverting any thing and everything they can softening the ground for their agenda?

SAVE The ECONOMY will be the battle cry that trumps every thing. It can be easily done. Very few people pay enough attention to see all that they are doing. If you attack hard enough those on the right as the problem, then no one in the middle will pay any attention to what you are really doing and the right will not be able to defend themselves fast enough. The nuclear option that launches the "Revolution of Change"? Obama is very smart and a great politician. I just hope that he is not that good.

Q.H. - Gore and judges

This has been around for a while. My question is what is next? I produce carbon. Do I have to pay or do the employer have to pay? Does gravity cause something? Oxygen causes rust and such. May be we should make a whole new marked for the use or production of oxygen. Just the parts that go into the atmosphere. It causes rust you know.

We Need Sustainable Capitalism - WSJ.com

One more reason the Obama Presidency might be a complete nightmare. Still hope that the damage that might be coming is reversible. I not sure that damage, in general, done under Bush is reversible. The bailoutishthingy.

The Hill Mobile - With other branches in hand, Dems now turn to the judiciary


And the bonus you don't want.
NBC2 News Online - Feds investigating sheriff after 'Hussein' remark

America The Last Best Hope

I wish that we could all make good points with out being snippy or what ever you call it. The point is well taken in spite of the nonsense.

The night we waved goodbye to America... our last best hope on Earth

"The swooning frenzy over the choice of Barack Obama as President of the United States must be one of the most absurd waves of self-deception and swirling fantasy ever to sweep through an advanced civilization. At least Mandela-worship – its nearest equivalent – is focused on a man who actually did something."

"They grasped the real significance of this moment. They knew it meant that America had finally switched sides in a global cultural war. Forget the Cold War, or even the Iraq War. The United States, having for the most part a deeply conservative people, had until now just about stood out against many of the mistakes which have ruined so much of the rest of the world.

Suspicious of welfare addiction, feeble justice and high taxes, totally committed to preserving its own national sovereignty, unabashedly Christian in a world part secular and part Muslim, suspicious of the Great Global Warming panic, it was unique.

These strengths had been fading for some time, mainly due to poorly controlled mass immigration and to the march of political correctness. They had also been weakened by the failure of America’s conservative party – the Republicans – to fight on the cultural and moral fronts. "

It is not conservatives or Republicans but all of us that should be suspicious. Not just suspicious but inquisitive and thoughtful on those matters and many others.

"And now the US, like Britain before it, has begun the long slow descent into the Third World. How sad. Where now is our last best hope on Earth?"

That is the real question. We as a people need to stop blaming our country for the worlds problems and realize the the U.S. is the main if not only obstacle to the world falling into darkness, a second Dark Age. Would USSR or any other Marxist regime made the advances they did with out fighting against a creative and productive free society? Those who will be left, Japan and some remnant of the eastern block, can not sustain those ideals in the face of the massive onslaught culturally, economically and even militarily.

Ace looks at it this way.

"Sometimes the rhetorical question, "Well, how bad could it be?" can only be answered by non-rhetorical experience."

I had hope we were better than that before the election. After I know he is right. My hope is that the answer is known before it is to late to turn back.

Redistribution Put Simply

It is stunning absolutely Stunning that Our Elected Officials are talking openly this way.



Putting it simply from Wake up America:Can They Take Your Money? Yes They Can!!!

"Who is it supposed to be shared with? Those that have not worked for it?

Business 101 folks, simply put, is you produce, you make money. The more you produce, the more money you make.

The American dream.

The reason that millions of people come to America to live. The desire for a better life. The desire to work hard and be compensated for that work."

I am not a Republican or a strait line conservative but "an antipathy towards redistributing wealth" ? I am pretty sure that any one you want to labeled as conservative or Republican have just "an antipathy towards redistributing wealth". I don't just have a strong dislike for it in the open unrestrained forms that it is beginning to take. I find it to be disgusting, fundamentally unsound, destroying any work ethic we have left, stifling creativity and productivity, dooming us all to mediocrity and a direct assault on freedom and the American Dream.

I do not want to live in 50's or 60's Russia, China, Cuba, 30's Germany or Italy. We are not there yet, yes I know. That is however, one of the very real possibilities down this road.

Q.H. - Dover at LFG

Just a quick hit on the Dover case. LGF has some audio from L. Lebo about the case as well as links to some other info. I find the whole thing fascinating and wanted to mention again the the Nova program on I.d..

As far as I can tell the only real question is the beginning. Is the first spark,the first chain of RNA a happy accident, an inevitable reaction given the circumstance or God knowing what would happen, maybe with a little nudge along the way. Me I am down to one of the first two, but we will never know.

Morning Racism

From the Dave Glover Show out of St. Louis on Nov. 5

( Okay can not seem to upload the audio, its free give it a listen its well worth it )

In the last 8 minutes there is a comparison of racism to the death of a loved one. The point being that getting over racism is like morning and no one can tell you when to get over it. That makes sense. I can see that those scars are not going to go away and time soon, but the world goes on. Along a similar line, Roland Martin on CNN a while back (ac360 a month or so, still have not found vid) saying that some racism is inferred and its not for others to say.

My question is the part where the world goes on. How can we move forward if no one except African Americans can say what is racist and if the rest of us can move on? Do we as a society have to wait for that segment of the population? Can the rest of us decide to stop affirmative action, busing and the rest? Do those getting the help get to make the decisions when it is best to stop giving them help? You can morn, but the world has to move on.

Jesse Jackson Crying

I can't say that I understand why he did. I do see why he did. I did not know him when he was marching with MLK. I only knew of him from his involvement with Rainbow Push. I remember the reports a couple of years ago about what amounted to using the threat of calling companies racist ,over little or nothing, to get money for Rainbow Push along with others. His crying made me sick.

If I though Obama was remotely just a liberal and won on the more traditional ideas that follow I might of cried to. But, I just can't get behind the idea of a racist country and the types of educational crap that seems to follow the ideas of Ayers, Wright, (I assume) Jackson and Obama.

It sound bad and maybe it is. I have very mixed feelings on Jackson, and very bad feeling about most of the ideas. It is all just so over the top.

The Creepy Obama Victory Speech

I went back to the text. there many thing that is strongly dis agree with but nothing by itself that was massively out of bounds. Remembering the speech at one point it sounded very socialistic, communistic. Then he went into nationalist rhetoric. Nothing wrong with nationalist rhetoric. Then it hit me. The cornerstone of any good take over, especially a communist one, is national rhetoric. Russia, China, Germany, Cuba ect. And it is the cornerstone of the ongoing propaganda to keep people on board. Of course it begins with the Cult of Personality at the top.

We are not there yet, just be aware and be warned.

I am not the only one who found it strange.

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Newsweek editor: Obama’s cult of personality is “slightly creepy,” isn’t it?

And From It's Time To Restore Liberty - Forbes.com

"The irony is that Obama arrives at the threshold of the White House steeped in ideas that subordinate individual freedom to the collective. In his campaign and his victory speech, Obama declares that America's "timeless creed" is now, "yes, we can." This is not a defense of liberty. It is a declaration so malleable and generic that it could have applied to anything from Lenin's Bolshevik Revolution to the Little Engine that Could"

Required Service of the Youth

My hope is fading quickly.

"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start."

This is the cashed page though Google for as long as it is their. Do a right click save for the full image.


And the current page Change.gov



If you don't see the problem not only with the sudden change of pages but the content of the original than read some history. The parallels are very clear. I don't need to say what has already been said.

Little Green Footballs - The Return of the Draft

Reboot Congress: Child Labor

Gateway Pundit: Change... Obama Announces Creation Of His Marxist Youth Corps

Ace of Spades HQ

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Obama website: Hey, let’s make community service compulsory for students

It's Time To Restore Liberty - Forbes.com

Skim through the comment, yes there are some crazies, there are many good points. I really didn't think I was crazy and I don't like agreeing with the right-wing. If you don't see just a little bit of a problem with the original version then I think, just maybe your part of the problem.

Creeping Shariah from the U.S. Goverment

Everyone need to start paying very close attention. Everything moves very fast, the all the "bailout" money, little regulation and a mandate? Watch very closely.

GAFFNEY: Treasury submits to Shariah

"Evidently, the price demanded by his hosts is that the U.S. government get with the Islamist financial program. While in Riyadh, Mr. Kimmitt announced: "The U.S. government is currently studying the salient features of Islamic banking to ascertain how far it could be useful in fighting the ongoing world economic crisis." "Islamic banking" is a euphemism for a practice better known as "Shariah-Compliant Finance (SFC)." And it turns out that this week the Treasury will be taking officials from various federal agencies literally to school on SFC."

What the hell does that mean?

Thus far, we in this country may not have reached the point where evidence of this sort of creeping Shariah is so manifest. But Treasury's accommodation to SCF demonstrates that we are on the same trajectory - the one ordained and demanded by the promoters of Shariah, one to which we serially accommodate ourselves at our extreme peril.

It all is going to happen fast and hide behind a crisis. BEWARE DANGER!

CNN shows us All our Mistakes

Let the assault begin. CNN demonstrates not necessarily a left view. What it does well is reflect the drive by thinking that plagues the main stream. These interviews need to be reviewed to first understand this drive by thinking and to better answer those types of questions. It is not to fight the left with conservative ideas.

It is to fight the lack of logic, the general ignorance of issues and the gotcha games on all sides.



"Why would you be so upset about people who clear more than $250,000 a year having to pay taxes when you're nowhere near that category? Is that a fair question? Can you give me answer?"

That is not a question that anyone in this country should have to ask, complete ignorance. The answer should be an explanation of the American dream and use The Words "American Dream"

"Under this system your the one who is going to benefit"
This is where you make the principles argument. 'Having an American Or capitalistic system is far more important than my hard times. That is the sacrifice that we have to make, a little self sacrifice from all of us.'

Do not answer personal attack with attacks.
'Those are my debts and i am clearly responsible for them. I will pay them. I am not living high on the hog at the moment but they will get payed. And just because I don't have a license does not mean I am not a plumber. I fix pipes and toilets for a living that is may definition of a plumber. It may not be that definition under the tax code of the law but pluming is what i do.' Then. 'If your going to dig in my past for just being a spokes person than why ask Obama about...' Do Not use Wright of Ayers, his writing in collage are usually pretty benign material why didn't you ask him for that. 'I was not running for president, I was expressing my opinions as they fit with the McCain Camp"

Finally throw McCain under the bus on some of these issues. He was wrong on the tax stuff and should have pushed for the Fair tax. And be at least some what versed on it. Use the names of those who support it and can do a better job explaining and defending it. It just might become an issue that gets talked about and if it happens enough maybe it catch fire.

Does some one have joes Email?

We are Unable to Confirm The Death at this Time

America Is Dead

I am not yet ready to declare America dead yet. Most indications are that it is. I will have confirmation in 6-18 moths. The death certificate will be issued on the back of The Constitution of The United States of America in Nov of 2010 or at latest Nov 2012.

May Your Leadership be as Centrist as the Whole of the people of the Country that Elected You

Congratulation MR. President Elect. May your leadership be as centrist as the whole of the people in the country that elected you.

Not that anyone is reading any of this and its not like there have been long conversations. If you did you would know that more often than not I say I don't know or i was wrong.


I Was Wrong very very Wrong.

I am mystified, scarred and very mad.

As always i try to find why.

I do not buy the it was time argument. My sister called with the answer i already knew. I have tried to fight it, kick it in the head and dismiss it any way I can. She was getting IMs, one from a friend of hers from high school in which she said she voted for Obama because his ideas just sounded better. why WHY? So I am back to where I started 6 or so years ago. The American public is ignorant and stupid. It doesn't apply to every one on the left or right mainly the apathetic in the middle. I hate that thought. Several books and any number of articles have been written about the voters in this country. It makes me very uneasy. 9 of 10 have cable or sat. History Chanel runs just about 24/7. why?

The2 ideas under my skin:
Living under the first years of a Communist dictatorship that many of us may die tyring to over throw. I hope, hope that the talk of him being a centrist is true. ( I reluctantly turned on CNN and, what little I saw, they where all saying "yes, he has to be a centrist" and "yes, of course he will" not good") The history of Obama and in general do not make any of this look good. Maybe the deep belief in free speech and the ideas of a truly free society will prevail but after all this I am actually questioning it.

The second. The two party system is intact and may have gotten stronger. I am not a partisan, and think both parties are are full of dim three year olds. Global warming, cap and trade, cut taxes now, continued support of the tax system, social security, Debt, weak leadership, weak foreign policy and on and on. If Hannity and others would stop throwing crap and take the time to explain in clear language over and over may be others would understand his point. He is a partisan... I am not going to cry if he gets booted of the air. Cry over the first amendment but not over him or some of the other serious partisans. On the other side which won't get kicked MSNBC. They both drive people to unreasoned and and generally ignorant positions.

Later:
Obama creepy statements in tonight's speech
how much of the win was "white guilt"
Jesse Jackson crying
Is he a centrist?
two parties
smart small government
indignation of the Obama supports
do we still owe the black community
did we have to have a black president for things to be equal
wasn't the equality largely working it self out.
calling only racism, racism
I am probably a racist in most circles
any number of statements I hope I remember
will voter fraud be fixed this time
will changes in the law will lock up the Dem majority
flexible constructionist constitution
stupid voter
the structure of a viable third party
the it was time argument
somehow this is viewed as a reigniting of American creativity
the simple and still unknown of Obama
the misdirection of CNN (Roland Martin)
the last of leadership from the Greatest Generation:(
is this all just and only the result of the civil rights movement
Almost voting for McCain not against Obama

More of a list for me. I have try not to be sick or curl up in a little ball. Looking at some that list (there so i don't forget in the morning) the mountain that i believe is in front of us may be just to big and I may not see us even looking at the foot hills in my life. More Alcohol to night and start over again tomorrow

Congratulation MR. President Elect. May your leadership be as centrist as the whole of the people in the country that elected you.

NH Poll Wathcers Watchers Kept 40ft. Away

I was looking for the vid of this and i found it. Do people really think there is not going to be some real hell to pay. The shear boldness of much just out right illegal action to protect legal action that can easily be used to commit fraud if not watched.

NH possible Voter Fraud

Philadelphia Voting Nightmare

To add to further problems there are at least a couple of cases of people voting twice. One more than is allowed I think, but I live in the Midwest what do I know. PA might be the deciding state and a lot of that depends on how much the votes for Obama are run up in Philadelphia or the fraud is run up which ever the case may be.

Voting Twice in Philly

Is Some Clarification on Voter Fraud Too Much to Ask For?

The Black Panther Twins from earlier



Update:
Voter “protection” inside Toledo Polling places

Some Back Story on the Black Panther Intimidation

Michelle Malkin (not a site I read) has the party statements from yesterday


Commments from the New Black Panther Party

”We will not allow some racists and other angry whites, who are upset over an impending Barack Obama presidential victory, to intimidate blacks at the polls,” Muhammad said. “Most certainly, we cannot allow these racist forces to slaughter our babies or commit other acts of violence against the black population, nor our black president.”

Why have we not gotten rid of these groups? I throw the skin head groups in the "these groups"

Democrats in Philly Toss Out GOP Poll Watchers

In Philadelphia there are cases of poll watchers from the minority party being asked to leave

Democrats in Philly Toss Out GOP Poll Watchers

Bolton Decries ‘Reverse Intimidation’

Townhall on the matter



You think the claims over FL for the last 8 years was bad? Either way this year it's going to be bad.

Black Panther Voter Intimidation in Philadelphia

Fox is reporting two men in Black Panther outfits in front of one polling place. One with a nightstick, tapping it and some sort of comments about white supremacist running the country. Poll watcher called the cops. The man with the nightstick was asked to leave and did. The other man is apparently a poll watcher and live in the building. I guess he has every right to do so.

Related:
Pennsylvania Vote Suppression/ Fraud Thread

LFG Election Thread


Update video:

The Real Discussions That Should Be In the Public

This is exactly the kind of discussions that need to take place soon to keep the US on top.


I don't care about the O'Rielly. Just ignore it. I don't know what it is about and don't care.

Their is some idea that civics shouldn't be taught in school on the comments. When I took civics it was mostly about how the government is supposed to work under the law and what those laws are. No problem there, now if you start teaching love of country it could easily go astray either way, but I think we should chance it.

Other that the hit on religion not the hit on zealotry I agree completely. I think that if pressed on the point he might say as I do that just because logic rules the day, doesn't mean there is no place for religion or philosophy. There are questions that there are no good answers for and that's where a foundational philosophy comes in.

Electoral Collage McCain 299, Obama 239

The basics:
McCain: MT, ND, MO, IN, AZ AR, GA No question for me
PA, NC, FL 99% sure
NV, CO, OH, NH, VA are the less certain

I would not be surprised by NM or ME going for McCain.

Why? The soft support for Obama has been moving to the undecided column. Enough questions have been put out there to push them over to McCain. The second part is at least some complacence in the Obama camp and the traditional and soft conservatives are pissed. Less turnout among the youth vote as evident by the early voting and some complacently on the Obama side. The McCain voters are coming out in larger numbers over Wright, Ayers, guns, Marxism. Those moving away from Obama will support McCain on the redistribution and socialism charges.

There is a urban Vs. suburb element. I am in MO in St. Charles just outside St. Louis. I know very well people in the suburbs of were raised there that now work or live in the city. They are generally pissed day in and day out at the mess that is that city and blame the seeming unwillingness of those in that city to pull themselves out of it.

As a secondhand example( i pay as little attention to that place as I can) Larry Rice run a shelter and soup kitchen in the city. A generally well liked guy and is on public access from time to time. He will pay bills for those on supposedly hard times. My understanding is that he also offers them things like plastic and caulk for windows to keep out the cold and lower the bill. They will not even be respectful take the stuff and say they will, they flat out refuse but will take the money. So when someone even mentions taking their money to give it to those type of people, those who will not take five minutes to save a little money, they go off the deep end and you get those that generally don't care go out and vote.

The election will be decided in the suburbs and in the end they will move more than enough to push many states (MO, IN, PA, NC, FL, CO, OH, VA) in to the McCain camp.

In general if Obama is at 51-52% he loses that state. 1% bleed from Obama to third parties and 2-3% bleed to thoughts over the kind of amazing number of poorly or un-answered questions and the slips of lowering the point at which the taxes are raised.

Trickle Up of Down, What is the Growth?

I have not brought this up before i keep meaning to.

Obama on low taxes: “Selfishness”

"This reveals the basic underlying philosophy of the Left - that one cannot possibly be charitable unless they use the government to redirect their funds. Obama assumes that people who don’t want to pay higher taxes are somehow “selfish”, but that’s only true if one assumes that the so-called rich won’t do anything else with their money except sit around like Scrooge McDuck, counting it constantly. Most people today invest it, which creates jobs, or spend it, which creates even more jobs, or donate it to charity — which works much more effectively and with much less overhead than filtering it through government bureaucracy."

This is an example of a more basic problem with not just the left but every day people. Just for a minute set the morals aside and the necessary taxation for military and roads.

The goal is to have a basic safety net and help those at the bottom up. Both sides are talking about the same pool of money. The money from the rich and business. Do we give the money to government to give to those they deem need it? Or do we leave it with the citizens or businesses.

Remember the goal. It goes to government. The talk it over and come up with a plan that is pieces of this idea and that. They take into account disability(real disability), age, income and the other things they should. They use some things they shouldn't like economic state in the area or ignoring the willingness to work. Moral judgments in effect. That aside what is the efficiency? The cost of mailing checks alone wastes millions not to mention the 30% or so fraud in Medicaid.

So lets say overall 20% is wasted in overhead of the agency set up for this and fraud. If we have an imaginary $100, easy to work with. At this point our citizen, imaginary, gets $80. That is spent into the economy. (Citizen $80, government 0)

I will assume nothing for savings or paying dept. If your going to do either you will do it much the same no matter where it comes from

The other side. I am assuming that our $100 is taken from profits and that this $100 is above the taxes taken for the necessary. The overhead of the business is already covered by the ongoing business.

If invested it gives a company about $100 and makes a little money. So it makes 3% or$3 (easy math)and the government takes 4.5 cents year in and year out at 15% cap gains tax. Really it will be more year over year long term as that $3 are added to the investment. (citizen 0, government 4.5 cents and a company has an extra $100)

If they hire someone nearly all of the $100 goes to the our citizen, that gets spent back into the economy. Oh and something like 5-8% profit is made by the company, 35% or (5$*.35) $1.75 t0 taxes. (citizen$98, Government get $1.75 and company growth)

If it is spent on supplies or equipment for the company it goes back into the economy. Yes 5-8% profit is made by the company 35% or (5$*.35) $1.75 t0 taxes. ( citizen 0, government get $1.75 and company growth)

Mostly it ends up in the economy in general plus grows the business that spent it. The economy grows that much faster creating more jobs and more money for our citizen. The government still gets a little and more as the economy grows.

And charity, good charities keep overhead to around 10%, so $90 to our citizen and it goes back into the economy. Or better yet you buy $100 worth food or clothes and take it to the charity. Better yet give it directly to the people that you know that could use that little bit of help. 100% to a citizen and you know it is getting to where it can help the most.

I meant to go with a individual self-reliant comment but you got this instead. It is a little harder to argue with this way.