Health Care Rationing for the United States In the Stimulus Bill

This is one of those Bad Little Things tucked away in the stimulus bill. It is Now gaining traction. Again the web seems to be ahead of everyone else Fox was just talking about it. It appears when this good enough light of day it set off a whole new round of out rage against this. What set it off?

Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan

"But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.” "

The mistake is that they cleared up the language. From the How the Stimulus Bill Could Kill You

'Section 9201 of the stimulus package establishes the "Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research." This body, which would be made up of federal bureaucrats will "coordinate the conduct or support of comparative effectiveness and related health services research."'

I talked about it here some days ago. SCHIP and A Heath Care Nanny Board, We Will Be Boxed In

"It sounds exactly like the last part of socialized heath care, just before the socialized society kicks in. Pass the little expansions of heath care like SCHIP til every one covered. Then start with the food taxes, weight checks and screens in all rooms waking you up and watching to make sure you do your exercise"

This is exactly how you get 1984 in modern times. I am glad this is getting attention. Lets all hope this will push the "what else is buried in this" storyline. This should give the politicians in the senate the cover to kill this bill hear and now. If they want Socialized society(Marxist? Communist?) they should put it in the light of day. Be very aware that they are taking us in a very different direction and playing like its just a little different.

First Obama Press Conference

He is who he is. It when well. He is a collectivist hack. We have gone from realizing there are true socialists in our government to socialists idealist.

Stop Helen Thomas. Don't call on Hufpost people. Do you really want to talk baseball when yo say the sky is falling. I am just going to do a few quick hits in this. Just not in the mood to burn straw men all night.

Japans lost decade? Not an economist. 6 Trillion in spending and that didn't fix it? Their are arguments all over on it. My question is do you want to multiply the debt by four and what didn't work

FDR? Your surprised he was wrong. That belief is spreading fast. When was the Great Depression over? After the war?

Not enough credit and its number two. #1 fix it before the stimulus. Fix the problems first and quickly. then massive stimulus. Can it wait for 2? 3? 4? months?

Economist and both sides say we need stimulus? True but not all of them think this package is it.

Tarp 2 as it looks will not work. You have to directly buy up the toxic assets. They can be auctioned off almost immediately. We might lose some money in the deal but it is the source of the problems.

The return to failed policies? wtf? The tax cuts? NO pushing housing? Capitalism? That is the most dishonest statement he has made and he makes it over and over.

The comments on Iran And the rest I am ignoring for the time. The super nova of government is more important.

No earmarks do not mean no pork.

Electronic records of fine. They create some jobs. The saving will not show up for years. They need to be stored offline(thumb drives), updated electronically and protected from government snooping. Not a bad idea but how stimulative is it?

Schools have been state responsibility. With federal money comes Federal strings. I really don't want anyone that believes in over blown social justice any where near schools.

How partisan is it to keep implying that the alternative to this bill is doing nothing. It is not. Very few, if any are saying do nothing.

Bipartisanship? If someone disagrees with you are you sure they are just doing it political reasons or do they know your wrong.

He at time plays at being pragmatic. I don't think he is. Government is the only one that can fix this? They do need to get out of the way. Fix the systemic problems that government made. It is not that capitalism is failed. It is that government that stuck there hand in and played around.

This bill is a massive government expansion. There is no sunset on any of the programs in it. If parts of the bill would not pass on their own, many of them wouldn't, why do we want to let them run on forever.

Bush spun at times he did it more than he should. He was wrong at times. Fine. But Obama, is whistling past the whole argument. Straw men and red herring are not only breeding at an exponential rate they are much bigger than I ever imagined. At some point they blot out the truth. Truth is hard enough to see and usually it takes time to become clear. What he is doing is at least intellectually dishonest. Spinning this much is telling lies. I have made the some argument for people on the other side as well. They make good points at times and at others they lie.

General Senate Stimulus Passing Rant

4 on the compromise
Live Blogging the Abortion
Senate Agrees On Stimulus Bill...
Senate Leaders Reach $780 Billion Compromise
Senators Reach Deal on $780 Billion Stimulus Bill

Mary Landrieu (D-LA) Thinks they will pick up support? And says there is a 2T hole in the economy we have to plug?

How about the 53t off budget hole for SS? How about the ? for off budget Iraq, Fanny & Fredie and some other bail out money? You can't plug the hole indefinitely. You can't just keep spending. Heal the hole. leverage some of this money. don't just keep spending.

Can the Repub. stop bitching about bipartisan crap and the pork. that is the least of the problems.

Make the tax cut argument stop just saying its better explain. Pull out the regulatory nonsense. DO NOt argue The freakin Pork. Mention it every time you talk but stop harping on it.

When will the welfare food stamp ect. addons stop? Why was the McCain sunset stopped.

The blocking of religion in buildings if any money is spent from this plan. If your going to say its been in bills for 40 yrs? Show me one. Get it in to the public.

the heath care board? Get it in to the public.

The Illegal immigrant loop hole (#5) I have not even tried to read through the "bill". I have not seen an argument that even comes close to explaining any of this. STop talking about the pork!

Obama's spending is stimulus last night. It sounds as if he told the Reid to GET this done. He is not playing" hacky sack and waxing sophomoric philosophy that he doesn't understand because he has not lived long enough." He may be a closet dictator waxing sophomoric Philosophy.

Senator Graham on the floor tonight said he didn't know if we could recover from this. he back peddled a little. GRAHAM said it. Hanety and Beck have been saying it for a while. I don't want to believe it. I never wanted to but I am there now. Look back at the rise of other socialist countries. Once we are there it is hard if and impossible if they take the guns. Beck is leaning now to a communist style government. Some one Please find a flaw in his overall logic on the matter. please

HAve we all read 1984? Or better Animal Farm they are not meant to be history books. They where a warning that is lost. There where signs. There where any number of post just on this little blog around the election.

Moving the 2010 census to the white house? Really Great! Fairness doctrine? Gun control. Big Labor wishes coming true. More people working for the gov. every day. Social Justice true believer in the white house. Foreign policy is heading right for appeasement territory. Gitmo?
Bush investigations . Fist Bumping in the white house and Jess Simpson? have u no class sir? Leader of the FREE WORLD!?
I could watch CNN for five minutes and keep going but i won't

READ YOUR HISTORY OR WAKE UP IN THE USSR

Oh the top 2 links say they may just add everything back in committee. They may lose the Repub. they gained they may loose when the final bill come to the floor.

I not turning out the lights yet but it is fading.

Media Matters Problems With the Media

I need to stop looking around the web so much. I get into trouble. I am looking to build traffic so in one of those little blog pool, hope to find things I could comment on. Well with out going into half a novel. Even more myths and falsehoods surrounding the economic recovery plan
Media Matter No. Weellll. Let's see how bad it is. And here we are.

1. The bill will not stimulate the economy
It will but not that much.. if any. And not mostly in the first years

2. Government spending in the bill is not stimulus
Some is, some is pretty iffy, and some is regulation(not stimulus)

3. There is no reason for stimulus after a turnaround begins
For a while but exactly how long? The end of time? McCain sunset?

(Just to be clear I only half heartedly read some of this. You know where some of it goes.)
4. Corporate tax rate cuts and capital gains tax rate cuts would provide substantial stimulus
Almost got me. ( quote of a quote)

"Cutting corporate tax rates on a temporary basis, as some have suggested, could even discourage investment. Cutting tax rates reduces the value of deductions that companies claim when they invest, make other purchases, pay wages, or depreciate equipment; for example, a $1,000 deduction is worth $350 at the current 35 percent corporate tax rate but would be worth only $250 at a 25 percent rate. If tax rates were cut on a temporary basis, companies would have an incentive to delay investments until the rate returned to 35 percent and deductions regained their lost value."

This may be true. It is however ass backward. It is about giving the company more money to spend. Company made $100,000 after cost. Takes 30,000 in deductions. 70,000 left. At 35% gives 24500. at 25% gives 17500. A 7000 dollar difference? Is that right? I guess your really taking about the costs to begin with. Your giving the company more money. If they have more money they can spend how they wish, make more money. Advertising, new equipment, more employees and invest. They can make more money than they supposedly "save" by waiting for higher tax right offs? They are not going to try to make money with extra money? Almost got me.

"Any windfall that taxpayers receive from a capital gains tax cut is unlikely to be spent quickly. The main beneficiaries of capital gains tax cuts would be high-income taxpayers, who own the vast majority of assets."

Fine. I don't disagree. The point however is that people like to make money. If money, especially large chunks of money, that are in gold, in bonds or under the mattress go back into the market (because "high-income taxpayers"like to make money) companies have more money to make more money and grow the economy. Some people might make enough in a good economy to have to worry about capital gains. Wouldn't that be horrible.

5. Undocumented immigrants without Social Security numbers would be eligible for the "Making Work Pay" tax credit

"No credit shall be allowed under this section to an eligible individual who does not include on the return of tax for the taxable year --

(i) such individual's taxpayer identification number, and(cont.)"

We got a "taxpayer identification number" for my dead grandmother's estate? I think? Does she get a tax credit? And how do "undocumented works" pay taxes? With a "taxpayer identification number"? I don't know. Really I don't have a clear answer.
6. CBO analysis found the majority of stimulus won't take effect for a year and a half
Shifting sand, but it all should be in the next 18-24 months.

7. Food stamps, unemployment payments are not stimulus
They are but how much? And when does the increase end?

8. The New Deal did not lower unemployment
Don't know. I think though a 10 year depression? They did something wrong at the very least.

"Paul Krugman has written that the New Deal produced "long-run achievements" that "remain the bedrock of our nation's economic stability" and that Roosevelt's short-term successes were constrained because "he was eager to return to conservative budget principles."'

Don't buy that. The social safety net? Its been a long running debate that is beginning to lose.

9. Fiscal stimulus in Japan failed during the "lost decade" of the 1990s
( are there any documents that don't link to their site?)

"that "the 1995 stimulus package ... did result in solid growth in 1996, demonstrating that fiscal policy does work when it is tried. As on earlier occasions in the 1990s, however, the positive response to fiscal stimulus was undercut by fiscal contraction in 1996 and 1997.""

If the uber-consumer stops spend that happens. The uber-consumer should never become existed in the first place. "You just have to spend more"? Just keep the economy propped up by deficit spending forever. That's Healthy. Wait. There's a problem. You need lots of little consumers. They harder to control but the system is much more stable.

10. The economic recovery bill would amount to spending more than $200K per job created



Done.
11. $4.19 billion of stimulus "would go to" ACORN
ACORN gives and gets money from all kinds of place. If the bill doesn't say ACORN that doesn't mean they won't. I haven't looked into this.

12. Robert Reich proposed excluding white males from recovery plan
I posted this socialist nonsense video before. See it for yourself.

They seem to look at the issues from weird angles. It never quite makes sense to me. I am willing to listen. I haven't heard anything yet.

Direction Of the Administration

It looks like to me that Obama has no clue what he is doing. I have a picture of him in my head of him playing hacky sack and waxing sophomoric philosophy that he doesn't understand because he has not lived long enough.

Tapper humiliates White House spokesman over transparency

Empty Obama Op-ED
"Has Barack Obama realized that he won the election? I know he told Republicans in the House that “I won” as a means to shut down actual negotiations over the stimulus package and try to get them to vote on a bill in which they had zero input. But in reading Obama’s column in today’s Washington Post, all I see is empty sloganeering and cheap fear-mongering instead of substantive cases for the myriad of spending projects in his stimulus bill"

The Fierce Urgency of Pork
"After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that at some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation would rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The hallucinatory Obama would give way to the mere mortal. The great ethical transformations promised would be seen as a fairy tale that all presidents tell -- and that this president told better than anyone. "

The Great Overreach
"Obama and his party were undone by their hubris. There was just too much muchness in the bill. The once impressive support from conservative economists evaporated. Right-wing radio has been having one long tailgate party celebrating Obama’s overreach. According to the polls, voters are souring on the whole thing. Republicans finally discovered testicular"

‘I Won,’ He Explained
"In a meeting with congressional Republicans, he brandished “I won” as a defense of his version of tax relief. But he later used “I won” to push back against an excessive reliance on tax cuts, claiming that it had been repudiated during the campaign even though he talked every day on the trail of cutting taxes for “95 percent of working people” and never once mentioned a commitment to extreme deficit spending."

The Neverending Campaign
"In only three weeks, Obama has managed to undermine many of the central tenets of his claim to represent hope and change. He has gone from promising to bring "an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas..." to using arguments like "I won," and the worn-out campaign rhetoric he threw to the Democrats last night."

Leadership: Obama's Flack Refuses to Say What Changes the President Would Support or Urge
"It's not leadership to just stand back and let factions clash without direction.
Not leadership. Simply passivity. He doesn't care what's in the bill. He just wants a bill.

Bush did this a fair amount and it infuriated me. But this guy is taking it to a new level -- he won't even list his vague priorities and criteria"

More from Ace of Spades Here Here Here Here

Spa-blogging Obama's Speech to House Dems On Retreat (Video)
I haven't really gotten my head around how fast this has all been or maybe I am not Web 2.0 compatible. Finally:


Not of his even begins to get into the foreign policy, the crazies he has appointed or much on the mishandling of timing, class, or the press. Playing hacky sack and sophomoricly waxing philosophic.

Religious Oppression. Another Perfectly Good Reason to Filibuster?

By no means am I a religious person. An agnostic at best and an atheist at worst, from a Christian prospective. I do fine religion on balance a very good thing. I just don't have that kind of faith and would feel walking past prayer groups uncomfortable.

However exposure to all kinds of ideas and belief is absolutely essential. There should be very little obstruction of religious expression. In fact I have been for a long time for teaching religious philosophy (not faith) in schools. It is a key part of this world and all must have an understanding.

In the bill, I wish i had the page. Via Fox

"It shall be unlawful for any public secondary school which receives federal financial assistance and which has a limited open forum to deny equal access or a fair opportunity to, or discriminate against, any students who wish to conduct a meeting within that limited open forum on the basis of the religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at such meetings."

Via Gateway Pundit

There is a list of senators who voted against the amendment.

It all sounds fishy to me so on further looking Right Wing Watch tries to explain why they are wrong. From the bill:
PROHIBITED USES OF FUNDS.—No funds awarded under this section may be used for—
(A) the maintenance of systems, equipment, or facilities, including maintenance associated with any permissible uses of funds described in paragraph (1);
(B) modernization, renovation, or repair of stadiums or other facilities primarily used for athletic contests or exhibitions or other events for which admission is charged to the general public;
(C) modernization, renovation, or repair of facilities—
(i) used for sectarian instruction, religious worship, or a school or department of divinity; or
(ii) in which a substantial portion of the functions of the facilities are subsumed in a religious mission; or
(D) construction of new facilities.
RWW "What the bill says is that if a facility's use is primarily religious, stimulus funds can't be used modernize, renovate, or repair it - not that groups will be barred from hosting a Bible study in the student union if the university receives said funding."
It Says "OR". Is praying and bible study a form of worship? Yes? It looks pretty clear to me. Why didn't the religious part get worded like the provision on sports.
The state is not god and god is not the state. Filibuster the religious oppressions.

Breaking the Stimulus Package

I am getting sick of all of this the misleading focus on the "pork". The bill is fundamentally flawed. I hope the republicans are not just being obstructionists. I don't think they are. I don't want to paint them as saviors, but it is a two party system after all.

The package has five main parts with some over lay and bad little bits. The US first ideas about purchases is a bad little bit. Focus and the main parts is imperative. First the pork. Things like the fountains in Washington state and water parks in Florida. That overlaps with the so called stimulative spending. That is the road spending and well that is really it from where sit but some include school improvements and the like. That then overlaps into what i call regulatory spending. The green jobs, efficient buildings, carbon reduction demonstration, std education and weather stripping type programs. The more distinct sections are the tax cuts. The other is the social safety net expansions. That is the 65% payments of COBRA, food stamp and unemployment extensions and blanket medicare cover for the unemployed?

The Pork. Pork is Pork do you need and argument against it? The bill way to expensive. We already carry to much dept. Let it go.

The Stimulus. There is going to be some in this bill. They have to be labor intensive, can start this year, the finished product helps the economy and the project will be there for 10+ years. Stimulus is not better than tax cuts as follows.

The Regulatory. Dump it all. This is not the time to tinker with everything. None of it meets the criteria of the Stimulus section, it applies here to. Do we need any more panels and commissions? More bureaucracy.

The Safety Net. It is more Social engineering. That in part is what got us into this. People need help now. Fine. That cannot become the base line for next years spending. If we spend less next year on them it cannot be allowed to be called cut. There must be an iron clad sunset of these expansions.

The Tax Cuts. Is it More stimulating to give a business a 1000 in tax cuts or 1000 in sales? Sales in the end puts only the profits in there pockets and then they pay taxes on it. The cuts as I know them now they are just gimmicks. 1000 to individuals will do nothing. People will save it and when things come back it will be there to go back into the economy and spur inflation. Fast write off are just giving money to companies now instead of two years or so from now. What is that going to do as we recover? Both of the cut are doing more harm than good. The cuts have to rate cuts and they have to be certain. People can't think that they can be raised in a couple months.

Not In the Bill

1. Bad asset fix( the original TARP would have done it)
2. A housing fix. Encourage interest cut till the loans are solvent. No cram down
3. Reverse the mark to market and up tick changes
4. Clear path to get business out from under the Government
5. Clear statement that we will let everyone fail after one or two round of help( bad but it's where we are)
6. Clear statement of capitalism
7. Sunsets for everything, Anything not spent in the next 2 years is taken back.

The bill is fundamentally wrong. It has to be stopped. Filibuster. STOP Talking pork. It is just spin and is unbelievably stupid. It is the least of the problems. Filibuster!

SCHIP and A Heath Care Nanny Board, We Will Be Boxed In

I don't know what i was thinking. I looks like Mr. Obama was going to at least play at being a pragmatist and take it slow for a while. I had forgotten i had written about the Obama nuclear option. It was not quite right. He will let the house crazies do it for him and he will play nice from the White House.

Had not read the bill and was not convinced that this was not just the run of the mill liberal expansion of government. I don't like it, think it is a waste and just wrong. But i could live with it.

It is not typical liberal spending. On heath care from American Thinker.

'Section 9201 of the stimulus package establishes the "Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research." This body, which would be made up of federal bureaucrats will "coordinate the conduct or support of comparative effectiveness and related health services research."'

checked that's what it says

'Tom Daschle, was kind enough to explain the goal of this organization. It is to cut health care costs by preventing Americans from getting treatments that the government decides don't meet their standards for cost effectiveness. In his 2008 book on health care, he explained that such a council would, "lower overall spending by determining which medicines, treatments and procedures are most effective-and identifying those that do not justify their high price tags." '

That I don't know that for fact. It sounds exactly like the last part of socialized heath care, just before the socialized society kicks in. Pass the little expansions of heath care like SCHIP til every one covered. then start with the food taxes, weight checks and screens in all rooms waking you up and watching to make sure you do your exercise.

They seem to be smarter than that. start at the bottom and sneak one of the keystones of socialized medicine in. Box it all in. I don't know how much force of law this board has. The board may do the rest. At the very least it will give the collectivists numbers to point to or write reports they can just pass and hide behind. It is down to just fill in the box after this.

America in Name Only?

There is no fixing this bill. Filibuster. Any that is not a leftist should remember that they have to live hear to and with themselves.

I don't say this lightly. If you let this pass it will very likely kill off what is left of what America was meant to be. Not right now but it will be dead in just a generation or so. It is in your power to stop this current assault.

Sharpen Your Tax Cut Argument

Looking though some old bookmarks, a blog and a post title. Tax Breaks will not Stimulate the Economy(also Nationalize the Banks NOW). There has to be some reason I saved the blog? The post links to a Democracy Now transcript. I must have been sleep book marking? may-be? It was a long time ago. I was juusst aah kid? Young and stupid? I am still trying to understand that thinking so again I am sucked in.

David Cay Johnston is the guest. I had some comments on his book Free Lunch. Good Book. I am willing to listen to him with some very large concerns about where his true ideology is. The whole interview is there. No out of context crap go listen to the whole thing.

DCJ:"They need to focus on those things that will increase demand. We’ve had twenty-eight years of supply-side economics. The data is eminently clear: it was an experiment, a radical idea, that did not work, in general. A few successes, but overall it was an utter failure that put us in this mess."

Could the expanding size of government be the problem? FDR?

DCJ:"One is, you and I are allowed to save, if we have a 401(k) plan, up to $22,000 a year without paying taxes; if we don’t have one, up to six, if you’re an older American. But executives, movie stars, athletes are allowed to save unlimited amounts of money. Hedge fund managers, unlimited amounts of money, without paying taxes. We should end those deferrals. It will bring in hundreds of billions of dollars.
Secondly, the Cayman Islands and other little parasitic operations like it are causing enormous damage to the state of our government’s finances. In 1990, about ten percent of corporate profits were taken in tax havens like the Cayman Islands. Today, it’s roughly one-quarter of all corporate profits. The only purpose served by these operations is to reduce the financial viability of the United States of America government."

DCJ:"Well, the congressman was exactly right: spending—tax cuts have not worked. The Bush tax cuts, all of them were financed with borrowed money. And where did we end up at the end of the Bush administration?"

Bush Administration made mistakes. IT WAS NOT the tax cuts.

DCJ:She’s moving to France. She’s not fully into the French system yet. She went to her neighborhood clinic, because under their system you do have to go to the neighborhood clinic. They saw her in a matter of minutes. They quickly determined that all she had was a cyst. They treated her. And she was out the door after paying a hundred-euro fee. She would have paid no fee whatsoever if she had been fully in their system."

If there was a problem how long would it have taken? And was this a private doctor? Okay the part I was waiting for.

DCJ:"One of the major reasons that we are in so much trouble in this country is that what Reaganism has brought us is spending without taxing, spending that money in ways that are totally unproductive and counterproductive and impose huge costs on the future. And this huge national debt, which is going to get worse with the stimulus, no question, and put us in danger down the road of a big inflation—but what the national debt does, what “borrow and spend” does, is it takes taxes from people who work—because that’s about 85 percent of all income tax money, from people who work—and it transfers it to capital, people who own the national debt."

85%!? what? Who are these people that work. OH he doesn't mean so called working class he means people that pay income taxes. That is not the people at bottom.

DCJ:"And who owns the national debt? Banks, insurance companies—oh, those are businesses we’re having to bail out—the thugs in China who shoot independent union organizers, and some older wealthy Americans. It’s a redistribution scheme to take money from working people and redistribute it to capital through the tax system. I’m curious, by the way, why the Republicans don’t see this, since they oppose redistribution down. You would think they should be out there actively opposing redistribution up. And a few of them have been."

I have to think about this. Why not not borrow money? If you redistribute down you have to take more out of the private sector. UP your putting it in? Okay the good part?

DCJ:"it’s ridiculous to think that business tax cuts will result in hiring people. I happen to also be the chairman of the board of a little company that I formed with one of my sons. We hire people. We hire people because we have more business. We don’t hire people to get a tax cut. That’s just the most bizarre thing I’ve ever heard. Business decisions are made on the basis of demand. We need to be spending this money to increase demand."

I might get it. It is a fine line. If your company has more money (from tax cuts) can you generate more business?

Does the company get more money from a hundred dollar tax cut or someone spending a hundred dollars on their products. Tax, you have a hundred more dollars? Spending, a hundred minus your cost, just the profit? Oh minus the tax.

And again what happens when the stimulus money is gone? Does the demand disappear with straight stimulus? Does the demand disappear generated by what the company did with a tax cut?

These thing can sharpen your arguments and belief. I am more in the tax cut camp than ever.

AMY GOODMAN: The former mayor, Giuliani, has said that that $18 billion in bonuses will be very important for New York tax revenue.

It's nice to have people agree with you. I had to. I don't know the tax code the comments on loop hole 382 of the tax code? Seems very odd. If so Fix it. Flat tax?
There is a lot in the interview I didn't get into (and don't care about) but I got what I wanted. And i didn't mention the site that started this.

Maybe I should. Know thy Enemy and all. ratboys_anvil_2 There.

Gun Control Though Paperwork

I was on the fence over the concealed carry laws. Not for very long. It passed hear in Missouri and it is a good thing. St. Louis resisted issuing licences but I think they worked it out. I had thought that was the worst of it. Then the discussions on the Heller started. So law A says you can have\use gun in instance a not b. Then law b says you can have \use gun in instance b not a. WTF? It was more complicated and includes an outright ban on handguns.

As complicated as laws are I wouldn't rule out passing 5-6 laws all but outlawing guns and a final bill that outlaws all but what the first laws didn't cover. Would any one catch on for some time? Then there is what seems to be the current tactic.

My sister is going to school in Mass. I know not the best idea but the music teacher she needed is there. She didn't fly. She is pretty savvy and I wasn't to worried but it is a two day trip and family is along way away. A gun? No, not even close. Pepper spray? Cheap enough. She should be fine with that. Nope. You have to register with a small fee with the local sheriff in Mass. She would have to register pepper spray. Paperwork. She didn't want to deal with that on top of everything else.

It appears to be the same thing with gun control. I have heard (that's authoritative) that you can get a gun permit in New York. You need several thousand dollars, a lawyer and a year or so to waste on it. The problem? They ban the insane and others that should not have guns. Fine, we are doing that now. Then ( a wild for instance) if you want gun here is the 300 page form. The last 100 pages need to be sighed by 10 local agencies 25 or so state and 40 Federal. They have to be done in order and take 6-9 months each. And only one gun at a time. And some classes. And a few background check. And we need school records. And a mental evaluation. And financial statement. And have you ever taken money from Washington, we have to be equal about guns and can't support you and your gun. and on and on.

Now if it was that bad in the next 10-15 years it would be struck down. However you can do far less with the same result. Congress Sets Table for Confiscation of Firearms I have my doubts about the characterization. Everything is pretty upside down. It is possible. One of the Free Republic posts explains the law. I would start there.
From the bill at GovTrack: Highlights by me

SEC. 102. APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS.

(a) In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under subsection (b)) an application, which shall include--

(1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;

(2) the name, address, and date and place of birth of the applicant;

(3) any other name that the applicant has ever used or by which the applicant has ever been known;

(4) a clear thumb print of the applicant, which shall be made when, and in the presence of the entity to whom, the application is submitted;

(5) with respect to each category of person prohibited by Federal law, or by the law of the State of residence of the applicant, from obtaining a firearm, a statement that the individual is not a person prohibited from obtaining a firearm;

(6) a certification by the applicant that the applicant will keep any firearm owned by the applicant safely stored and out of the possession of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

(7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding-- (Continues)

(8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;

(9) the date on which the application was submitted; and

(10) the signature of the applicant.

(Continues)

SEC. 304. FAILURE TO PROVIDE NOTICE OF CHANGE OF ADDRESS. (cont.)

SEC. 305. CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION.(cont.)

SEC. 403. INSPECTIONS.

In order to ascertain compliance with this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the regulations and orders issued under this Act, the Attorney General may, during regular business hours, enter any place in which firearms or firearm products are manufactured, stored, or held, for distribution in commerce, and inspect those areas where the products are so manufactured, stored, or held. (cont.)

My eyes gaze over. The whole bill is easy enough to fine. I am not to sure how bad this is. It was introduced by a Mr. Rush? From Chicago? Is that good? Nope.

Finally a brake down of the constitutional problem. I don't know the source very well so RAOR(read at your own Risk). The gun issues is important but the tactics are deceptive and are not limited to guns.